tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3166297507174717122.post3439483093780670704..comments2024-03-27T21:42:56.131-05:00Comments on 1001plus: White GuiltSJHoneywellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13550007053995112090noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3166297507174717122.post-12493832235127372022017-01-13T12:21:26.951-06:002017-01-13T12:21:26.951-06:00See, I don't hear it in reference to things li...See, I don't hear it in reference to things like the BET awards. <br /><br />But in reference to <i>The Help</i> and other movies, there is a definite connection, and one that is ultimately destructive (to the person, not the movie). Plenty of people watched this and saw themselves as Skeeter, thinking that this would be how they'd want to act in that situation. Anyone suffering some sort of "sins of the father" guilt and watching this movie almost certainly wouldn't identify with Aibileen, but would see her as someone <i>needing to be helped</i> rather than as someone capable in her own right. <br /><br />I'm not saying it's right and I'm not saying it's pervasive. I'm saying it exists.SJHoneywellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13550007053995112090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3166297507174717122.post-60521933009373473472017-01-13T12:00:26.614-06:002017-01-13T12:00:26.614-06:00In my experience, "white guilt" doesn...In my experience, "white guilt" doesn't exist in any significant quantity. I seldom see it used except as a way to minimize progressive causes, and liberals in general. For example, a few years ago when "12 Years a Slave" won the Best Picture Oscar, trolls were all over the Internet attributing the win to "white guilt." As if "12 Years a Slave" wasn't really that great a movie.<br /><br />Perhaps "white guilt" does exist, but I have a hard time believing that it exists in a large enough quantity that the term has any use or meaning outside of racists that get upset over things like the existence of the BET awards. Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17921029597363212734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3166297507174717122.post-16686226257380798002017-01-13T11:48:26.011-06:002017-01-13T11:48:26.011-06:00Oh, I don't think that there's anyone who ...Oh, I don't think that there's anyone who would point at their guilt as to why they might do something in this context. I'm suggesting, and I'm suggesting it specifically because I have heard people say essentially what follows, that there are people who feel actual guilt over the actions of their ancestors. <br /><br />I don't think white liberals support racial justice because of guilty feelings. I think they support racial justice <i>and have guilty feelings at the same time. </i><br /><br />Gun to head, I think a lot of this comes from liberal forms of Christianity. Like it or not, the idea of people being punished for the sins of the father is a part of the religion. We need look no further than the concept of original sin to see that. I don't think those people who buy into that concept are feeding the homeless because of original sin. I think they believe in original sin and also might do things to help others. SJHoneywellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13550007053995112090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3166297507174717122.post-25294832469725202592017-01-13T11:41:37.399-06:002017-01-13T11:41:37.399-06:00I should have said "without much elaboration....I should have said "without much elaboration." Sorry about that. But you must admit that your elaboration would probably not be very convincing to somebody who doesn't accept the "white guilt" framing. <br /><br />To be more specific, I'd prefer to hear about some examples of white liberals who support progressive causes related to race merely because they feel guilty and not because it is the right thing to do. I've never run into anyone who supports liberal causes because they feel guilty.<br /><br />"White guilt" is a conservative frame to minimize the role of race in society. If you buy the frame, then you are accepting the idea that "white liberals" support racial justice merely because they feel guilty and not because the causes have any justice to them.Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17921029597363212734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3166297507174717122.post-56820636789852477322017-01-13T11:05:06.232-06:002017-01-13T11:05:06.232-06:00I literally just elaborated on it.I literally just elaborated on it.SJHoneywellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13550007053995112090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3166297507174717122.post-29509999016176668682017-01-13T10:17:10.289-06:002017-01-13T10:17:10.289-06:00I've been on the lookout for the existence of ...I've been on the lookout for the existence of "white guilt" for 30 years. And I have never seen any, unless you count the sheer number of people who say "yeah, sure, it exists" without any further elaboration.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17921029597363212734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3166297507174717122.post-65714479376085863602017-01-13T08:46:14.429-06:002017-01-13T08:46:14.429-06:00Oh, I think it is a thing, but it's not one I ...Oh, I think it is a thing, but it's not one I fall for. "White guilt" as a concept is essentially feeling guilty for the actions of one's ancestry in relation to actions taken against ethnic minorities. There are plenty of white folks who feel like they should bear some guilt for actions of the past. <br /><br />So, while it may not make sense or be useful, it exists, and <i>The Help</i> wants to play on it.SJHoneywellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13550007053995112090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3166297507174717122.post-13413335805370936892017-01-13T08:24:23.230-06:002017-01-13T08:24:23.230-06:00It seems very unlikely to me that there is such a ...It seems very unlikely to me that there is such a thing as "white guilt." Liberal white people are opposed to racism and oppression and inequality and poll taxes and lynching and slavery because such opposition is the right stance to take and the most sensible social position for anyone who believes in a progressive future for mankind. Not because they feel guilty about it.<br /><br />I am in my 50s and have met a lot of white liberals over the decades. I have never met a single one that chose not to be a racist just because they felt guilty about the despicable acts of their society or their ancestors.<br /><br />White guilt is a myth.<br /><br />It's been a while since I saw The Help, but I remember liking it quite a bit. Especially Jessica Chastain.Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17921029597363212734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3166297507174717122.post-7620784707706687352017-01-13T08:21:42.439-06:002017-01-13T08:21:42.439-06:00Yeah, it has its problems. On the plus side, it re...Yeah, it has its problems. On the plus side, it really is a good story an it's beautifully made, so the problems are a molified.SJHoneywellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13550007053995112090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3166297507174717122.post-68426528603807189842017-01-13T05:48:15.359-06:002017-01-13T05:48:15.359-06:00I had very similar misgivings about the balance be...I had very similar misgivings about the balance between the story arcs and the white women and the black women. I did like that it took place in a largely female world, something you rarely see in films. But yes, the ending is a cop-out.Julia Machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09041411551162128922noreply@blogger.com